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	<title>Comments on: Is medical school an empathotoxin?</title>
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		<title>By: The ability to quantify empathy &#171; Health and Medical News and Resources</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-23203</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The ability to quantify empathy &#171; Health and Medical News and Resources]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2011 23:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-23203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Is medical school an empathotoxin? (mindhacks.com) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Is medical school an empathotoxin? (mindhacks.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20588</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2011 03:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear CurrentMedStudent,

Here&#039;s what you said: &quot;For somebody decrying the lack of empathy in doctors, you don’t seem to have a whole lot for those providers who have to deal with sickness and dying on a daily basis.&quot;

When did this become about people having empathy for the doctor? This is about *doctors* having empathy for patients. Yes, you work hard and see a lot of tragedy. You knew what you were getting into. Why should we have empathy for you when you are unwilling to strive for empathy, preferring instead to offer a list of things that you think justify your lack of empathy. And with that list, you become just another doctor. Not a great doctor... and clearly not even one who reaches for greatness. Just. Another. Doctor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear CurrentMedStudent,</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what you said: &#8220;For somebody decrying the lack of empathy in doctors, you don’t seem to have a whole lot for those providers who have to deal with sickness and dying on a daily basis.&#8221;</p>
<p>When did this become about people having empathy for the doctor? This is about *doctors* having empathy for patients. Yes, you work hard and see a lot of tragedy. You knew what you were getting into. Why should we have empathy for you when you are unwilling to strive for empathy, preferring instead to offer a list of things that you think justify your lack of empathy. And with that list, you become just another doctor. Not a great doctor&#8230; and clearly not even one who reaches for greatness. Just. Another. Doctor.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Baudouin</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baudouin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“what would you prefer, someone who is a good clinician or someone who is a nice person?”

False dichotomy... The question forces the choice but if you ask with the third choice with &quot;AND&quot;, everybody chooses this one, of course.

This shows the importance to take care about the medical studies.
The question is : How to avoid natural empathy to diminish during the learning process ...and 
the professional practice?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“what would you prefer, someone who is a good clinician or someone who is a nice person?”</p>
<p>False dichotomy&#8230; The question forces the choice but if you ask with the third choice with &#8220;AND&#8221;, everybody chooses this one, of course.</p>
<p>This shows the importance to take care about the medical studies.<br />
The question is : How to avoid natural empathy to diminish during the learning process &#8230;and<br />
the professional practice?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ed Drozda</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20500</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Drozda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Individually, each medical student and practitioner has a finite capacity to act effectively in challenging clinical situations. For some, the first cadaveric incision leads to symptomatic PTSD. It becomes a toss up between doing what we set out to do (learning how to participate in healing) and fitting in with a culture that elevates us above those we hope to serve. As the author says, &quot;our traditional ‘learning through humiliation’ style of medical teaching&quot; is akin to clinical hazing.

Empathy is inherent in each of us and the positive effects of it are well documented. While we cannot teach empathy we sure can make an effort to do less to discourage it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Individually, each medical student and practitioner has a finite capacity to act effectively in challenging clinical situations. For some, the first cadaveric incision leads to symptomatic PTSD. It becomes a toss up between doing what we set out to do (learning how to participate in healing) and fitting in with a culture that elevates us above those we hope to serve. As the author says, &#8220;our traditional ‘learning through humiliation’ style of medical teaching&#8221; is akin to clinical hazing.</p>
<p>Empathy is inherent in each of us and the positive effects of it are well documented. While we cannot teach empathy we sure can make an effort to do less to discourage it.</p>
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		<title>By: Trusted Advisor &#187; The July Trust Matters Review &#187; Trusted Advisor</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20477</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trusted Advisor &#187; The July Trust Matters Review &#187; Trusted Advisor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Does medical school make doctors less empathic? If so, does that mean we can trust them more, or less?  Does objectivity trump empathy and caring? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Does medical school make doctors less empathic? If so, does that mean we can trust them more, or less?  Does objectivity trump empathy and caring? [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Book Review: Practical Wisdom &#171; Cedar&#039;s Digest</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Book Review: Practical Wisdom &#171; Cedar&#039;s Digest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] From Vaughan Bell at MindHacks: Medical school reduces empathy [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] From Vaughan Bell at MindHacks: Medical school reduces empathy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daryl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 04:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The article is right.

It&#039;s impossibly difficult to feel empathy for others when you yourself are wasted, having just completed a 34 hour duty with only few hours of sleep, having barely eaten any real food, and being embarrassed in front of the patients by an almighty specialist.

Seeing a person die in front of your eyes once is shocking. Getting to see it everyday is...well...routine.

Unfortunate...but it&#039;s the truth. That&#039;s how it is.

Still, I try. I have been a patient myself, and have had relatives who needed medical attention. Nothing&#039;s worse than talking with a doctor who doesn&#039;t connect with you on an emotional level.

However, I think it has it&#039;s merits. Most people would say that it&#039;s easier to decide rationally when you are emotionally detached.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article is right.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s impossibly difficult to feel empathy for others when you yourself are wasted, having just completed a 34 hour duty with only few hours of sleep, having barely eaten any real food, and being embarrassed in front of the patients by an almighty specialist.</p>
<p>Seeing a person die in front of your eyes once is shocking. Getting to see it everyday is&#8230;well&#8230;routine.</p>
<p>Unfortunate&#8230;but it&#8217;s the truth. That&#8217;s how it is.</p>
<p>Still, I try. I have been a patient myself, and have had relatives who needed medical attention. Nothing&#8217;s worse than talking with a doctor who doesn&#8217;t connect with you on an emotional level.</p>
<p>However, I think it has it&#8217;s merits. Most people would say that it&#8217;s easier to decide rationally when you are emotionally detached.</p>
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		<title>By: Empathic Medicine &#171; Rising Apes Catching Falling Angels</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Empathic Medicine &#171; Rising Apes Catching Falling Angels]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] a friend&#8217;s blogsite Heroes not Zombies today I came across a link  to a discussion of a research review in the journal Academic Medicine how medical students [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a friend&#8217;s blogsite Heroes not Zombies today I came across a link  to a discussion of a research review in the journal Academic Medicine how medical students [...]</p>
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		<title>By: terry33</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[terry33]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 07:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most medical students are pretty freaked out the first 
time they have to dissect a human cadaver (although they
don&#039;t always show it), but over time they get used to it 
and eventually don&#039;t mind at all. This is due to 
desensitization, and is essential to allow the students 
to learn physiology properly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desensitization_%28psychology%29


“The review of 18 studies found that self-reported emotional 
understanding declines markedly during medical training. 
Counter-intuitively, the crucial downturn happens when 
medical students start seeing patients.”

I think this is another example of desensitization. At
first the students are horrified by the sadness and suffering
that many of their patients endure, but after a while it
just doesn&#039;t bother them as much.

And yet, some doctors end up much less empathetic than
others. Probably this is because they started out having
less empathy even before starting medical school, exposure
to suffering reduced their already small store or empathy.
While those with lots of empathy, also end up with less 
empathy, but still have lots of empathy left.

It would be a worthwhile study to test the empathy levels
of doctors before and after they take a one year sabbatical.
I would bet that the sabbatical away from suffering would
increase their empathy levels.

Terry]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most medical students are pretty freaked out the first<br />
time they have to dissect a human cadaver (although they<br />
don&#8217;t always show it), but over time they get used to it<br />
and eventually don&#8217;t mind at all. This is due to<br />
desensitization, and is essential to allow the students<br />
to learn physiology properly.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desensitization_%28psychology%29" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desensitization_%28psychology%29</a></p>
<p>“The review of 18 studies found that self-reported emotional<br />
understanding declines markedly during medical training.<br />
Counter-intuitively, the crucial downturn happens when<br />
medical students start seeing patients.”</p>
<p>I think this is another example of desensitization. At<br />
first the students are horrified by the sadness and suffering<br />
that many of their patients endure, but after a while it<br />
just doesn&#8217;t bother them as much.</p>
<p>And yet, some doctors end up much less empathetic than<br />
others. Probably this is because they started out having<br />
less empathy even before starting medical school, exposure<br />
to suffering reduced their already small store or empathy.<br />
While those with lots of empathy, also end up with less<br />
empathy, but still have lots of empathy left.</p>
<p>It would be a worthwhile study to test the empathy levels<br />
of doctors before and after they take a one year sabbatical.<br />
I would bet that the sabbatical away from suffering would<br />
increase their empathy levels.</p>
<p>Terry</p>
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		<title>By: The decline of empathy in Medicine &#171; Heroes Not Zombies</title>
		<link>http://mindhacks.com/2011/06/18/is-medical-school-an-empathotoxin/#comment-20118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The decline of empathy in Medicine &#171; Heroes Not Zombies]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindhacks.com/?p=18364#comment-20118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Vaughn Bell, across on the Mindhacks blog doesn&#8217;t only highlight this study under a title of &#8220;Is medical school an [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vaughn Bell, across on the Mindhacks blog doesn&#8217;t only highlight this study under a title of &#8220;Is medical school an [...]</p>
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